"that this point i'm feeling bad for this girl, she should have more respect for her body than offering to show strangers herself nude... And I never asked her if I could see her naked anyway. She doesn't know at all who I am, eh.. I don't get it."
"that this point i'm feeling bad for this girl, she should have more respect for her body than offering to show strangers herself nude... And I never asked her if I could see her naked anyway. She doesn't know at all who I am, eh.. I don't get it."
"I think social media/networks are really interesting because of the added layer of protection individuals have in how they represent themselves online. You have the ability to hide your flaws and intentions and the opportunity to inflate the things you are proud of. This is possible in person, but even more possible online."
"if i was gonna psychoanalyze your selfies they're often about the interplay between your body and the clothes you wear, or you and your relationships with people you're physically surrounded by at the time that u take the selfie"
"1. showing off pink hair
2. an accidental weird shot of my leg/shoe but this doesn't count
3. bart window reflection selfie with string of lights necklace
4. selfie with weird nailpolish
5. selfie with glittery blister (nsfw)
6. weird angle selfie
7. selfie with necklace beard
8. selfie with wire rim glasses
9. selfie with side corn row
i'm not gonna finish describing them all but i think they all have a point besides just FACE so suck it"
"ok first of all you know boring people who take boring selfies and second of all fashion/makeup selfies are like 90% of all selfies ugh you suck at understanding selfie culture morning gloria"
"Girl thinks she's outspoken, goes on 4chan just to spite some blokes and plays the nice girl card to run from standing against the littlest consequence she needs to remedy. The real wealth of feedback she desperately needs will never even be revealed to her, not even in her own conceit unless she can damn well answer the weakest response she's afraid of."
"If the ego comes into being only in relation to the outside world, the outside world, then, comes into being only in relation to the ego: the one is a projection or mirror image of the other"
“worked for a large market of buyers while maintaining a highbrow, principled stance.”
"Perspective perspective, the two gazes appear to have different directions. The self and the selfie appear to have separate externals. The true self and the image of the self appear to have different senses of desire.
Love between multiple people requires reciprocation, rejection, shared ontologies, shared neurosies, dual give and dual take. To masturbate or exercise narcicism or some kind of platonic masturbation should be simple because there is only one person, one set of ideals, one set of desires. But here in this selfie, we see the truth, that even to love oneself, requires expression, and expression is a thing that translates from inception to actuation. Expression reflects, it grows, it distorts.
To love yourself is different from being yourself, and in the difference between the two the 'self' can change.
As the image of you travels from your body to the mirror and back out the mirror, it changes and becomes a new version of you. If an individual tries to love themself, then the person they love is inherently different from the person who set out to love them. Even when reduced the utmost limit, love is a dialectical nightmare/dream."
"you have nice titties, ma'am. what "shit" are you looking for?"
"A selfie is not any picture of yourself but a picture of you that you’ve taken yourself, with your phone, or maybe looking into your computer’s webcam—the picture is taken with a device that is capable of distributing it on a network almost immediately."
"i'm in love"
"Among other things, their neuroimaging studies seemed to indicate that during transcendental experiences, the brain has decreased activity in the “object association areas” which make the distinction between the self and the non-self."
seems like her obsessive focus on women documenting their individual achievements is problematic too - Susan Douglas wrote an interesting take down of how marketers hijacked feminism and tried to make people feel that in order to be good feminist they had to focus entirely on themselves and their own achievements, sorta split the feminist movement between "successful" women and women who had problems being traditionally successful bc they wanted to have kids and not sacrifice their lives for their career
"I think she is vastly misinterpreting or over-interpreting the data, and I think it’s destructive...She is inviting ridicule for a group of people about which there are already negative stereotypes."
imo a selfie is very tied in to the concept of agency, i like how the paparazzi/surveillance example gives importance to the agency of the subject despite the fact that they are not in control of being photographed
"one of my favortite oscar wilde quotes goes something like "only those who think appearance doesnt matter are truly superficial""
"'Mary Bond may seem like an enlightened type but secretly she is just trying to outsmart you and maybe herself as well.'"
we purposefully cut it out bc i didn't want this one to be immediately sexualized
"in some ways i think its more sexualized
because u show ur boons"
ian, my bf, he curated the images
and not your vagina"
hmm, do u think?
ur giving us a very soft version of sxuality
like boobs are pretty and easy to consume
we never see vaginas
at least not "real" vaginas
and hairy vaginas aren't like the prettiest, sexiest things
also i find it problematic to let someone else control your imagery
esp a man//lover"
"haha. on that topic one thing definitely stood out. not saying you've necessarily gotten overwhelming support or not, but if a guy made a similar page, my speculation is he wouldn't receive have as much positive feedback. in fact, a nude guy would prob turn off a lot of people. but a girl is somehow different
then again, the photos weren't "nude" as much as topless for the most part. maybe guys oversexualize breasts then ahaha"
people's abilities to remember stuff (which is what shapes our perception of ourselvesS) is a neural system that shares a shit ton of overlap w the theory of mind system
understanding yourself can help you understand others much better etc etc
"Self aware is a good thing. Unfortunately a lot of people are not. They get hung up or angry when shown that they arent as perfect as they think."
selfies are partially an act of examining oneself, not sure how examining oneself leads to being less self aware
"I am witness, daily, at work to people blatantly lying to cover their mistakes in order to appear good at their job. They refuse to admit they are wrong."
how is that related to selfies?
or a "relentless focus on self improvement"?
seems kinda like the opposite
"Re. Selfie culture 'without' thought is dumb. I Selfie to parody the mindless vanity. I also enjoy seeing these images of me on Facebook. I'm guilty too."
why is looking at images of yourself "bad"?
"But I am 'aware'"
it's an important part of neurodevelopment
how do you know other people aren't aware?
isn't that a little presumptuous?
I started out taking selfies in a parody of an activity I thought of as very silly
i view my personal growth over the period which i started "excessively" self cataloging as much more illuminating and important than my self growth over any other period
"Self empowered stuff is important. As are you're Selfie pics of armpit hair etc. They are breaking a taboo of manufactured 'female aesthetics'."
whaddya mean by "manufactured female aesthetics"? i'm interested in the intersection of self love/consumerism/female bodies
"Sure. What I mean is the generalised view of 'female'. Airbrushed and slick as opposed to the real deal.
I'm intrigued by the mass acceptance of mass marketed image's of gender specifics.
I'm not stating I'm right in any of this. Just curious in constructive discussion..."
collective memories tend to be defined by whoever talks the most, people who are deemed "experts" tend to talk the most
a large part of why "mass media" is so powerful is bc it is pervasive
that's why the internet is so cool!! other people get to talk/share opinions and the ability for a select few to define the trajectory of the narrative is limited
"Selfie is a cry for help: "Help me take this picture from further away than my arm length""
"To answer your question, "since when did being asserTive become seen as a bad thing"
When women started to do it to"
"i use selfies because i think appearance is important"
"the idea of working with the mindset of a selfie, and aware of how a person takes a selfie, and then having them on skype so they are also aware of their composition and are kind of technically making a stream of selfies, but another person or process actually SAVING the images and curating the moments.. so it's like selfies once removed. "seflie once removed" is kind of good but I'm wondering what else could describe it"
"Hey ur cool"
"I find you through your website . I love it"
ahhh, muchas gracias
hablo un poquito espanol si prefieres
"Sii mucho mejor"
Que te gusta del sitio web?
"La idea es muy original y las reflexiones muy inteligentes
Ademas la estetica me gusta"
ahhh, muchas gracias! yo lo recogi los reflexiones, y mi novio me ayuda con la estetica
"AHHAHAAH. I like your selfies. Some of them are really funny and some of them are really artsy"
"nineteen year old art school students are blurring the boundary between art and life by not knowing shit about either"
"Is it reasonable to ask girls to value themselves when they have been so utterly devalued by those around them and society more broadly?"
yeah, my fb is mostly quotes from other people and then pictures i take of myself -- examining myself w/in my network or whatevers
Instagram propelled the selfie into the spotlight. Due to the nature of the website, which elevates image over text as a mode of communication, selfies have become an integral part of how one is perceived.
"also, the superimposed text (even though i haven't actually read it yet, hehe) simply by its appearance contributes to that concept of the dissociated individual -- language that is just as [pro](e)vocative as the series of selfies.."
Facebook has created a “likes culture” in which women post beautiful photos of themselves for likes - but there is a phenomenon in which each “like” does not mean as much as it used to, chasing the dragon in a sense.
dunno what i would do
in a werld w/o colurs
"probably see b&w
they're easier than colors
they make shit beautiful
but they overcomplicate things
and fuck overcomplications"
and all ovr th place
"I know people will be like... annoyed at mary and I for discussing THIS publicly, which is ALSO funny to me"
"i love you like you love you"
"Women’s magazines, movies, and TV shows have been especially effective in alienating women from their faces and bodies."
" i think what i like is the pictures that could be read as sexy are surrounded (lovingly touched) by pictures that are silly, dumb, 'ugly', whatever so it's like, you can't take away the sex object thing as the only thing about the girl, because there's all these other parts of the girl staring at you in the face, sticking out her tongue, being a multi-faceted human person and you can't get away from it lol"
"its like im having a conversation w myself
sometimes they are like
reminders of things
like the whole "you can stop flirting with me i'm not falling for u again"
phrases/images that have a v explicit meaning to me that i cant express otherwise
but have a hard time trying to explain to other people
so its like
maybe if i say it enough/say it with my eyes/repeatedly
then it'll get across"
"this somehow struck me in a way that made me want to double over in tears thank you"
"I saw an article about what you did with your art on 4chan and was, at first, offended I suppose? I've spent an unfortunate amount of time on that site and its territoriality has rubbed off on my, I suppose. But by the end of it, I was moved and that's an understatement. The social commentary apparent in your piece was brilliant. The way you trapped them in their own game and even got some of them to realize what was happening/has happened to them. I used to see that site as harmless fun, but now I just see it as a sad, drug-like hole for voiceless young men to crawl into. I don't know if you meant any of this by what you did (although I suspect you probably did...) but I just wanted to thank you for doing something so wonderfully badass as that. Please keep doing shit like it. It's fucking great. Oh and good luck with conference!"
"tho i didn't like the real/fake distinction of her article, feel like the distinction, if rephrased as surface/enabling or something, fits here. enabling and encouraging systems that produce and give a platform to 'surface problems' like him are the same ones that produce irl racial, sexual, gender, etc, violence. people friending / engaging as bro folks like that are complicit. idk just imagined me bursting into a room of alt bros top free with 'interrogate yourselves' tattooed on my breasts"
sarah gram writes about selfies as a critique of capitalist culture. she defines the concept of a young-girl and the body as separate from actual young girls. she says the problem lies not in the literal creators of the selfies, the young-girls, but in way we treat their bodies as an extensions of themselves and comodify them. when critics call the young-girl a narcissist, they are compressing her humanity into her physical self. is loving one’s body and hating one’s personality narcissism? sarah doubts that narcissism, which is merely self-love anyway, is actually a bad thing. was van gogh a narcissist? rembrandt? do art critics accuse them of overwhelming narcissism?
selfies are more exploratory than definitive in nature. girls take selfies in different locations, different lighting, different clothes. they are searching for the perfect portrait, the one that will express exactly what they want others to see them as. they post them on facebook and instagram, effectively transforming their search into a performance art, allowing viewer interaction, cataloging their choices. in the context of a capitalistic culture, gram says, this turns into an exploration of their consumption. this, she argues, ties the girls down, providing differences in options of consumption as faux liberation.
"an idea or element of social behaviour passed on through generations in a culture, esp by imitation"
"i think it's cool that you network and communicate with people with the selfies. you don't seem to make an effort to look perfect or whatever like most people do and that's refreshing. keep on keepin on my dear"
"What if instead of posting selfies, I just continually posted my accomplishments ("Got an A on my paper!" "finished reading into thin air!" "Ran a seven minute mile!") are those people really any less annoying than "selfie" people? Yet that seems to be what she's proposing women do?"
"if I had to wager a guess, I'd say this fear is based in the fact that women's sexual identities are so dependent upon the gaze that owning/controlling/acknowledging it is too empowering for women, hence the backlash."
"I'm interested in stuff like this as 'mundane' examples of everyday patriarchy."
"I'm fascinated by the once-removed quality of the website; although it has text, and it has selfies, they are rendered interchangeable (as well as partially illegible) by the qualities of the website itself. Any individual selfie is this rendered into an abstraction of "selfies" and text into "writing about selfies" regardless of its position or content. As a result, the website demonstrates the general and conceptual (a once-removedness) by means of a representation of a vast plurality of particulars, and the very idea of it ("a website of selfies with writing about selfies on it") becomes as powerful as - if not moreso, the great trial of conceptual art - the reality."
“Receiving a photo of the face of the person you’re talking to brings back the human element of the interaction, which is easily misplaced if the interaction is primarily text-based.”
"At what point does a 'selfie' become a narcissistic act as opposed to a self empowering one?"
"wow such boob much picture wow so words wow very feminism wow"
Contemporary academics engaged in the study of the development of adolescents and young adults are currently embroiled in a vicious debate: are Millennials, the youngest generation self absorbed to an unhealthy point?
"the quote on narcissism, threat, ego is on point/s"
"the outside world, like the self, is a fiction: each is a metaphor for the other. We need not, therefore, take Lacan’s mirror stage literally, for, after all, it itself is nothing more nor less than an attempt to grasp the ever elusive relationship between subjects and objects, inside and outside, self and world. The mirror stage, like the self and the world, is a fiction"
"i want to make love to you"
"'I think, therefore I am' is as alluring and as impossible a wish as Narcissus’s wish to 'separate myself from my body.'"
"Selfies are fine. I don't really care if people are seeking an ego boost, or if for whatever reason they prefer the aesthetic of a self-shot photograph. The only time I am irritated by them is when they flood a social networking feed. Diversity and new content is what brings me back to profiles or sites, and sometimes a succession of selfies is too much to handle."
I do chronicle everything visually tho, along with related but not obviously related quotes
"You champion! I love you. This is working on another level entirely. since I know you I ended up looking through the quotes to try to find something I may have said. As a result It made me think about my own narcissism on as subject and object. Where does the dialogue end between ourselves and those who echo us, or who we echo? I don't know, and frankly I don't give a damn. But maybe that's my narcissism talking!!!!!!! "
"I don't want to live in a world without selfies, guys."
"if you are a girl and have lots of sex then you are a slut with low self esteem obviously"
"You know, I think the real honest original fear of narcissism has to do with a lack of empathy for others and an isolation that nobody can penetrate. Becoming cruel and dismissive. But there is a secondary fear, a derivative one.
That has to do with "You think you're so great. You think you're better than me." that is threatening to the egos of others. That is an evil interpretation that has nothing to do with the original fear.
I like the ones where she wears sunglasses. Too cool"
"this is amazing!!"
"A selfie is not a portrait. A portrait is a flat monument. Like a bust or a full-body statue, a portrait (whether painted on canvas or shot by a photographer) partially extracts the sitter from her life. Portraiture asserts the sitter’s significance—it says she deserves to be inscribed in history. A great portrait, whether painted or photographed, conveys its maker’s awareness of his task and the contradictions inherent in it this task: the promise and the impossibility of immortality. A great portrait reveals the ripeness and vulnerability of the sitter’s body, both in the way it depicts his flesh and in the inclusion of a memento mori, wilting flowers, or some fruit about to rot. Time will kill him. His image will outlive him. The same is true for the self-portrait: the artist has to find a distance from herself, to step outside her body in order to think about its mortality."
"I think you'll enjoy this read if ur interested about the nature of the female selfie. it's painfully verbose and lengthy, and has some flaws in analysis in that the author doesn't examine how racially marginalized women fit into the equation but it's rly good otherwiiissseee"
"Like, you're a Mary Bond floating around there somewhere, forcing this human body to click the button on the webcam"
what made u think it was a armpit hair project? v fascinated by that, it was a part of how i thought abt the project but no one else picked up on it
"A category of stimuli of great importance for primates, humans in
particular, is that formed by actions done by other individuals. If we want to survive,
we must understand the actions of others. Furthermore, without action understanding,
social organization is impossible. In the case of humans, there is another faculty that
depends on the observation of others’ actions: imitation learning. Unlike most species,
we are able to learn by imitation, and this faculty is at the basis of human culture. In
this review we present data on a neurophysiological mechanism—the mirror-neuron
mechanism—that appears to play a fundamental role in both action understanding and
imitation. We describe ﬁrst the functional properties of mirror neurons in monkeys.
We review next the characteristics of the mirror-neuron system in humans. We stress,
in particular, those properties speciﬁc to the human mirror-neuron system that might
explain the human capacity to learn by imitation."
Well like I don't think they are narcissistic at all, like we are living in a day and age that sort of bred this sort of photography style
Because ppl are always prompted to share information about themselves constantly etc so it would make sense to have people always update images of themselves
Also clearly a lot more interaction is online now so maybe ppl don't really get snapped in a lot of photos with others (pretty much me) so maybe people compensate by photos u feel
Plus with rise of iPhones and inner cameras are way more popular thus selfies more assessable and common
Esp when paired with social networking booming in recent years just twitter and Instagram helped lead to this
he doesnt understand that what he loves is merely a reflection of himself
he loves the image of himself that is only an image
"I don't wanna BE her cuz then I wouldn't get to fuck her!!"
"I'm happy to like, accept crit on what I say, but I don't feel like 'not talking about it' is a good thing"
The media seems unsure of what to make of selfies, like that one lady who thought they were narcissistic, they all went along that line, although now they are opening up to the potential that selfies are good.
"like who THE FUCK posts shit like that and who THE FUCK likes that"
"SARA STOP POSTING FUCKIN PORN ON FB....SICK BITCH
WHY IS HER PITS HAIRY THATS GROSS ANIMAL BITCH
DO U KNOW THIS GIRL?"
"At first blush, Mary seems the total package (i.e. smart, pretty, sexy, effervescent, and more), but in the final analysis her tendency toward onanistic self-absorption can be rather off-putting."
"I guess as a woman, as someone who experiences "mundane" patriarchy every day, I'm not as interested"
"Social media’s “what are you doing now?” invitation to pose, pontificate and consume conspicuously only amplifies the narcissistic presentism of the generation depicted in The Bling Ring. It makes it easier than ever to tell the world exactly what you want them to know about you. Through a carefully cropped and color-corrected selfie, depicting whatever glamorized “now” we think paints us in the best light, we can construct a public persona as we see fit."
Self portraiture, when examined through the lens of canonical European art history, is typically viewed as a rigorous examination of the self - not aesthetically, but psychologically.
"WELL whatever floats ur boat....not disrespect intended"
"Mary, how long did it take to compile all of the selfies in the collage?"
ask Ian, he was in charge of curating the selfies
hence the "dissociation"
"idk it was compulsive
i was channeling"
"the curation of the selfies being intuitive seems to very nicely reflect the intuitive nature of the selfies themselves"
"Einstein's space is no closer to reality than Van Gogh's sky. The glory of science is not in a truth more absolute than the truth of Bach or Tolstoy, but in the act of creation itself. The scientist's discoveries impose his own order on chaos, as the composer or painter imposes his; an order that always refers to limited aspects of reality, and is based on the observer's frame of reference, which differs from period to period as a Rembrant nude differs from a nude by Manet."
"was wondering if it's too self indulgant or like just my love for looking at her
but like that's intimate and people respond to that soemtimes"
"Hating women's selfies is just another way to casually bash women. Who cares? I see people sit around and mock someone's selfies. Why do you care? And women do it (the bashing) as much as men! Let's all embrace one another! *sings kumbaya, makes blood sacrifice to dark lord Kramdar*"
formation of bro-centric online communities where females masked their identity
"The obsession with selfie and self image to the detriment of all else...."
"you seem so confident for your age
most 19 year olds are just….no
feel like this big group we're a part of online really abandons all assumptions which is lovely
also because internet personas
i act like I'm in my 20s, both online and irl. I'm a really serious person all the time….so most people well above my age tend to tell me I'm more mature than them haha
i pride myself on this
but yeah as far as i know, you seem v mature so props to you. you're also childlike (not to be mixed up with childish or anything) which seems to be a nice balance
childlike as in, you have this curious and playful drive with everything"
"Selfie is word of the year!"
"So by this author's definition, selfies should advertise products (this cool hat), experiences (I read Infinite Jest), or accomplishments (I got a job offer), but the author fails to comment on many people - and especially many women's - collective refusal to do that, which I think is way more interesting."
"A hijab doesn’t free a body from sexualization—instead, it emphasizes its sexuality by aggressively signaling a deletion. It just moves the threshold of sexualization even farther away from nudity."
"This is how the selfie inscribes a body into a network—this is how it asserts a body’s connection to others through a network via their respective devices."
i'm examining selfies/narcissism/social networks, if you read the website there are more in depth descriptions of what im doing
"yeah i guess selfies help us feel a person's presence when we interact on the internet. cognitive dissonance tells us to believe that person is who he/she says they are. dunno. my penis."
"okay, so, given that a selfie is also a self-evident phenomenon, in the context of this discussion, i think a person would have to take all the elements of a selfie and negate one aspect of it to accomplish some variation on the anti-selfie, unfortunately the only qualification for which aspect is 'one that hasn't been mentioned yet' because of the arbitrariness of the overall topic introduction and extrapolation
for instance, say someone accidentally takes a selfie while frantically trying to photograph something else, the non-performative aspect of this could be considered 'anti-selfie' in nature, and the person then choosing to post it despite it being a mistake offers it some qualitative value if the comedic value doesn't overwhelm the depth of the image itself"
The framing of the divide between genders as an “evolutionary” phenomenon bothers me immensely - relieves society of its responsibility for emphasizing a predominantly inaccurate divide between “men” and “women.” This divide is imaginary, in the sense that it is not based in biological differences, but is instead memetic versus genetic. The majority of psychological differences between men and women are the direct result of societal conditioning.
"best advice i can give is to laugh at urself"
i really fcking love the work u do, feels v important
yeah yeah, swag, thanks
"if ur telling the truth u bettr make them laugh or they will want to kill u
my fav quote
did u like what i wrote on that feed?"
whoa, that is perfect
yeah, definitely feels like what i do too
in english class my teacher would always have me play the role of the fool in shakespearean plays
feel like i try to embody that role as much as i an
"its important the trickster opens the door"
yeah, u have to figure out how to make ppl consider ur ideas w/o them feeling threatened by them
sorta like a "no homo" thing, if that makes sense, like a "lol jk but seriously"
"Talk about urself but not too much"
"no one wants to read my internal tourmoil"
A selfie is not monumental. It doesn’t inscribe its maker in history; it inscribes him in a networked present. Can a selfie be art? I think so, but it would entail discarding the conventions of subjecthood of the public sphere both for artists and for art—the artist as a singular figure creating singular works of art—and instead thinking of art as an everyday activity. Even as an everyday activity, though, art would still have to retain a certain complexity and openness of relations—the qualities that allow an image to outlive the body in it, integrated in life. I think Jessica Ciocci’s selfies on Instagram are art. Her face and body acquire grimaces, poses, wigs and outfits in in her selfies, and she posts five or six or a dozen of them consecutively; the angles are weird, mirrors and frames cut her off. Charlie Chaplin made his movements stiff and distinct, to mimic the way film breaks reality into many still images and then reconstitutes them as motion—but Jessica Ciocci’s selfies do the opposite, revealing a fluidity of the body against the cut squares of Instagram and in doing so she situates social media in the movement of ordinary, everyday life. Jesse Darling’s selfies are art, too. She tends to take them in airports or airplanes or gallery bathrooms or chain coffeehouses—a liquid embodied presence in the junkspace of the global city, a grim expression and a gaze directed at the phone (not the receiver of the image) speaking to an anxiety about the affective labor demanded of her and her resigned acquiescence.
Haters gonna hate
"i think her argument is that it's a reflection of a society that says a woman's worth is primarily in her good looks but the key word 'primarily' seems incorrect w/r/t how people actually use selfies"
"i've been focussing on studying the possibility of the emergence of a social form that has maybe never really existed before which might serve as the facility to an opening toward engagement with the always unmasterable and always unexpected body. in the west, the body is eternally subject to discourses of regulation and is the object of internalized external control violently disconnected from its inhabiting consciousness at the moment of public contact; so perhaps another mode of engagement is required to scale back the pernicious effects of that encounter upon any notion of individual embodied agency."
"Everyone makes fun of selfies yet so many women still post them. Selfies suggest that you have no friends to take your picture and/or are self-involved enough to catalog self-portraits on your phone. Against my better judgment, I went out with a selfie-poster once. She not only fulfilled these selfie taker stereotypes, but also didn't even look like her, well, selfie. "
"Further, self-written tweets are typically posted on social media, ostensibly with the intent of getting people to respond to them — that's what social media is. In that respect, tweets aren't expressions of creativity, but rather calls for affirmation. In real life, walking up to a stranger, tilting your head upward towards their face, opening your mouth, summoning your creativity, and screaming a 140-character phrase would be cause to summon the authorities. On the internet, it's just how people operate."
"i care about people because people matter and i care about my selfies because its my face online and when i lose it i feel scared."
"This is granting her something of the equivelant of hacking 4chan and changing posts at her whim and slying away with it. She's not that bloody brilliant."
"Selfies are empowering bc I'm controlling my own image"
"i like that u are partakin in the conversation"
Many women artists were excluded from the European canon, but they were some of the most prolific creators of self portraiture: a clear indication of the value that is placed on the physical appearance of women.
"The way I feel like I’m not crazy is that I’m able to let go of all of it."
"Rather than reading narcissism as an aberration of human nature, Lacan reads it as constitutive of the formation of selfhood, a process common –like mirrors–to all. The "human child," writes Lacan, "at an age when he is for a short while, but for a while nevertheless, outdone by the chimpanzee in instrumental intelligence, can already recognize his own image as such in a mirror." While this image may accurately reflect the physical unity of the child (we could say the child’s flesh), it belies the child’s psychological state, for at this age he "is still trapped in his motor impotence and nursling dependence." "Poor foolish boy," writes a Lacanian Ovid of Narcissus, "…the thing you are seeing does not exist." The child, at this stage, is like a man learning to operate an unfamiliar machine, or like a drunkard on a bicycle – he is unable to get his body to do what he wants it to do."
"This made my phone crash! Congrats Mary, it's wonderful."
"What if you dont find her attractive in the slightest ?!?"
"I like girls who are confident enough to embrace their insecurities, are curious about the world and have a certain level of audacity."
"What he has seen he does not understand, but what he sees he is on fire for, and the same error both seduces and deceives his eyes."
"the child’s identification with his image also prefigures the subject’s “alienating destination” –for to think of oneself in terms of the cogito is to cast oneself as being separate from one’s body and from the external world, it is to play into the image reflected in the mirror"
"i fail to understand how cleavage and duckface is any more attention seeking than walking out the door with a lot of cleavage showing and makeup"
i really like the idea of merging echo and narcissus into one cohesive unit - echo is a repetition of others, while narcissus is in love with the reflection, which is discussed as a part of himself, yet it is separate
my own dissociation from my body inverts this, i think, an ambivalence abt it and a desire to inhabit it vs be removed from it, the selfies ive been taking on facebook are a part of my effort to feel connected to my body, while im posting quotes a la echo
although sometimes do put original shit up
w/e i like it
In order to delve deep into the subject of selfies, it is important to contextualize them within the human tradition of self representation. It is also important to analyze the potentially problematic aspects of the way in which this tradition is documented. A cursory Google search of “self portrait” displays first a block of related images and then a link to a Wikipedia article on selfies. Of the first ten Google image results, six are self portraits by Van Gogh, two are by Frida Kahlo, one is by Rembrandt, and one is by Lucien Freud. The Wikipedia page is similar; there is a heavy focus on European men and their contributions to art; the inclusion of Frida seems vaguely like tokenism, wow look at the way they devote ONE PARAGRAPH to eastern tradition, that one asshole who is a fucking fckfack wow look he did a “panel self portrait” ugh who cares
"I don't like taking selfies.. I don't like taking pictures of myself, it makes me uncomfortable"
"The first things you remember, from your first experiences with the internet, tend to say a lot about what you were looking for at that time in your life.
I was looking for friends. Girls my age. People to confide in. I was a badly bullied loner in high school when I first logged on. In the abscence of real life intimacy, I formed relationships over text. They were manic depressives, cutters, dykes, weirdos, freaks like me.
But sometimes I worried I imagined them all. Except for the rare mix tape exchanged or postcard mailed, there were no traces of them in my everyday life. It could seem like these people I communicated with in chartrooms and message boards were only characters in an enormous interactive fiction experiment, giving the illusion of prescience and attention. That it was scripted just for me.
And, in a way, I did invent these online friends. Tone and emotion are hard to nail down in text-based correspondence. So we rely a lot on the intuition of others. When we don’t even know who the recipient is, we fill in the gaps with imagination.
The best writers know where not to fill in the details, when to trust the imaginations of their readers. And the early days of the internet were without the archival, documental impulses we have today. No profile pictures or real names. It was build on the capacity to vanish and reinvent. I believe that trust was formed because of these breaks in the narrative.
Writers of fiction will tell you, adherence to reality can obscure greater truths. All the love and suffering of the human condition might more easily coax its way out in stories and make believe.
I had my core community, but I also had adventures. I had the fake personas, the proto-trolling, the kinds of boundry-pushing experiences that helped me feel less afraid of the real world and guided me toward what was I was looking for, who I actually wanted to be.
That is how the internet first appeared to me: as shared experience of make believe and dreams. And while much has changed in the decade since: that slipperiness, those mutable boundaries, the capacity for experimentation and imagination still is here. The internet is made of dreams."
"You're kinda a weird girl aren't you?"
"Very interesting, especially the idea that "it’s an image that establishes immediate contact, by introducing gesture and mimicry." It makes me wonder if you could tie this into "mirror neuron" research and the way in which selfies are likely to elicit mimicry and empathy in the viewer."
"hi mary!!! i just want to say that your website is rad and i love what you are doing 🙂 YOU GO GIRL"
"btw this reminds me of when my friend submitted a circuit board to her art class and said it was like a city of electronic figures and hopes she got an A. She did not.
Not that I don't understand it.
Just that the execution of it seemed to be "for lack of a better thing to do. and this is coming from someone who titled their facebook profile selfie. lol"
"Then one of those who had been mocked, lifting hands to the skies, said ‘So may he himself love, and so may he fail to command what he loves!’"
"sexc bab3 hott *squeals wiff excitement*"
"its amazing no sarcasm its very inspirational"
"Feel like: selfies are not inherently bad or inherently good, they are things made by people, and people as a group fall in the "grey area" category.
Feel like: people are generally narcissistic. There are obviously extremes going in both ways, but we are all a little selfish and navel-gazey. It is human.
Feel like: social media has made it easier to highlight that narcissism.
Feel like: building self esteem from selfies could be problematic."
Selfies, before they were called selfies, were called a variety of names. On tumblr, they were often refered to as GPOY, or “gratuitous pictures of yourself;” on 4chan, girls who posted pictures of themselves were accused of “camwhoring.”
The way we view a selfie is very much based off of context: Who took it? Where was it posted? What were they wearing? Through these questions, we try to interpret what the selfie means to us.
GIRLS TAKING SHIT TONS OF SELFIES WHAAAAT BUT ONLY OLD MALE EUROPEAN MASTERS ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT
"WEBSTERS MADE "SELFIE" THE WORD OF THE YEAR "USAGE HAS INCREASED 17,000% WITHIN THE PAST YEAR""
"BOND. Be my spirit animal."
"casting our desires and our excesses as positive forces - noting that it is precisely our desires which motivate us to improve ourselves, and make us unique"
wouldn't describe what ian and i are doing as an "unselfie"... not sure if anything could ever accurately be described as an unselfie. this is probably significantly colored by my belief that every work of art is autobiographic in some way
"i feel two ways about it
its great you included the text
its really personal and also referential to selfie as subject matter
i like the whole wallpaper of her but its also a bit creepy
or can be read narcissistically initially
"i like what you have to say abt selfies. don't have anything too intelligent to add just yet because boner. i like your cute face. i love the hairy armpits. hnnngggg."
In the early days of socialization on the internet, among newly burgeoning modes of communication, girls were encouraged to not identify themselves as female, creating an atmosphere in which women are erased from discourse. Now that technology has improved, and it has become easier to send information via digital images versus pure text, selfies immediately push gender to the forefront.
Girls are encouraged to not take overtly or suggestively sexually photos; the method of eradicating these “sexts” is raising girls’ self esteems. Sexual photos of boys, however, considered normal and expected, and are not a sign of poor mental health.
"i mean really we had fuckers in the 16th century who'd sit still for hours on end for paintings of themselves so you know we're just cutting out the middleman by having phones that allow us to do it almost instantly"
On Tumblr, which is known for having a women-heavy population, people began a trend of posting “GPOY”s. These pictures could then be reblogged (shared or responded to) or liked. People developed fanbases, asked for compliments, and served as inspiration for others.
“Thinspo,” or pictures depicting often unhealthily skinny women as inspiration for losing weight, became a trend as well. “Proana” is a tumblr movement devoted to promoting/bonding over an anorexic lifestyle. There are, however, due to the nature of tumblr, also anti-anorexia communities, in addition to other positive communities. There are flourishing trans*, people of colour, queer, and other social justice communities. Many of these communities make heavy use of GPOY, or selfies, to promote solidarity.
i just very rarely (if ever) post about events in my life
"I have been talking with mary a lot about like, how girls treat each other and I don't really know / understand any of that so i'm just like, curious what people will say about this / such things"
It’s too bad that the media often smears selfies, because they have the potential to be hugely beneficial, both in the development of the self and the development of the brain.
Self awareness is an incredibly important thing to develop. Being able to recognize oneself in the mirror is a key stage of development in infants. By examining oneself extensively, one becomes more self aware and thusly more able to self regulate and grow.
Selfies aren't only useful for getting to know oneself, they encourage empathy across digital barriers. One of the largest criticisms of digital communication was that it's much more difficult to determine intent, tone becomes muddled. Initially, ways of clarifying included emoticons and special modes of typing. Now, selfies can be used as well to communicate different emotions. A lot can be communicated with facial expression - include the conversation between Ian and I using selfies.
"O I wish I could leave my own body! Strange prayer for a lover, I desire what I love to be distant from me."
"i just wanted to share this funny quote from my exboyfriend when we were text arguing :
"As opposed to ur 1000 selfies whenever ur bored or lonely?" - exboyfriend"
i like how it's not just me talking about it or you talking about it
how it's a sort of networked response
"Look at the rise of plastic surgery, our painstaking attention to Facebook and Twitter profiles, our selfies, our relentless focus on self-improvement, and “soccer teams that give every kid a trophy … Could it be that she is onto something? How else to explain that Twenge’s thesis [that younger generations are “increasingly entitled, self-obsessed, and unprepared for the realities of adult life”] just feels right?"
"I love the word “selfie”!
People used to call pictures of themselves GPOY—Gratuitous Pictures Of Yourself. But that tag has disappeared from the vernacular, displaced by selfie. Maybe it was because people realized that these pictures weren’t gratuitous—they were important for sustaining contact with the people in their social environments. Or maybe they intuitively realized how hard it was to take a picture of your self—gratuitous or otherwise—because the self isn’t really there.
Lots of people still want to imagine that the self is there. A product of Victorian romanticism and Freudian psychologizing, the self-important phantom self requires consistency and autonomy, limits and boundaries. For a long time that self has set the parameters of the modern worldview.
“Selfie” is a diminutive of “self.” Diminished, debased, made cute, it leaves room to acknowledge the flux of personhood, the reality of a living body that renews all of its cells every seven years, of a living mind that revises its ideas at least as often.
(People who cling to liberal subjecthood are terrified by the bodily and mental potentials for change, the inconsistency of personhood. They want to keep it all inside in the boundaries… that’s what “conservative” is.)
The selfie is abject, the residue of personhood’s digital and physical molting—images shed in square, flat flakes like bits of a snake’s skin, recording a body’s change.
(This fall dozens of people told me they didn’t recognize me because I’d grown my hair long, and I wanted to tell them: Pay more attention to my selfies.)
Is the selfie a signifier of narcissism?
No—narcissism is a pathological obsession with the self that inhibits the recognition of others. The figure of narcissism is the body before its reflection, unable to look away. Social media is a house of mirrors built around transmissions. Producing a reflection of your image in Instagram always involves an awareness of the presence of others, the knowledge that your selfie is flaking and refracting in their phones. Labeling this reflection #selfie tacitly recognizes the horizontal proliferation of reflections, the dissolution of personhood in the network. The real narcissists are the ones who never take selfies. They imagine their self as autonomous, hermetic—too precious to be shared."
"feeling connected with Mary Bond"
"Mary Bond revolutionizes selfie-awareness and perceptional cognizance"
"it is fascinating reading his behaviour online being dissected."
I like your work.
All best to you and yours,
"Hi, this is the body I walk around in"
"This is one of the more thought-provoking things i've consumed in a while. Thank you for sharing."
"4chan is always arguing with itself. It's filled with angry social rejects and is stuck between keeping up appearances and trying to be new when everything is already played out. All she did was get some attention towards her site, but this whole post is giving her credit as if she's masterminded the greatest scheme in the history of the internet. You could post any porn on /b/ and there will be an argument, the real worth here can be found in the replies immediately calling her out on her bs."
"i'm dying at "ugly attic troll" lol"
"too in love with herself to ever love anyone else"
How could anyone confine themselves to one system or creed? Why should they feel they had to? There was no fixed self; surely our several selves melted and mutated daily? There had to be innumerable ways of being in the world.
"I have never interacted with you before, but I just wanted to let you know that I think disassociate.me is SUPER cool and it's also super cool that you were trolling /b/ for feedback. I just wanted to say great job."
"Just dropping a note of appreciation for the autodissociate.me link (seems to have been pulled/privatized/eaten); how did the text bits come in? Are they responses to individual things, are they all the same author, or is that better left a surprise?"
"yeah it's not really released yet, i was just helpng mary with the sharing
figuring out how the thumbnail and title and description would work with the metadata"
"oh, wow, for me it's two independent layers: a collage of photos, a collection of minitexts"
it should be that
the quotes are from various places
and she likes it divested of source"
"oh, good. The "once removed" is now possibly "twice""
"yeah that as well as the fact that if you dig enough you'll discover that i took the pics of her through skype and screenshots
so while she's aware and posing
she's not actually hitting the click"
"Yeah, I was wondering if they were all actually self-ies or unawares. If the latter I was thinking like a webcam timer that randomly captures you while doing mundane things, and there's a project someone did not terribly long ago with that"
i like that it's kind of vague"
"but she's never like in the process of leaving or entering the frame, which makes it more intense"
"really cool project, and apt timing, too"
"it's funny that most of them are much more 'attractive' too because it's me curating the moments, she seems to like to really destroy that with the ones shes posts"
"how do you mean?"
"like if you look at mary's wall a lot of them are strange faces, 'bad' angles, kind of purposely playing with her image instead of trying to show off her 'best side' every time"
"you mean like the difficulty of having your GF as the subject?
awareness. That's the word I associate the most with selfies, but I'm not sure it's helpful
Like David Attenborough practically killing himself to be invisible not only to the subject but to the camera, that's awareness too, but it's another pole"
"yeah, she's aware of herself, and we're aware of the context of our relationship and also aware that we're letting people in - and there's some nervousness about whether they accept this as interesting even though it's intimate - or because it is intimate"
"I used to think the selfie was like a parody of portraiture. Glamour Shots figures weirdly in my analysis of photography
and one of the texts in there talks about that divide, that space between sitting and paying for a portrait and then... (it drops the narrative there)"
"oh god what a hater"
"Everyone's face is the best face. Show it off. Your friends love you."
Self portraiture is a tradition that spans back many centuries. As with many traditions, it was revolutionized with the advent of social media. The selfie, which is a photograph of the self, taken with the intent to be shared immediately on a social network, is a result of the marriage between the internet and self portraiture. There are certain presumptions about who are the main “perpetrators” of the selfie: narcissistic, consumerist “Millennials,” generally female, who are taking a selfie with the intent to get attention of some sort of audience - generally presumed to be male.
"yeah like it's cool to show off lipstick/clothes which arguably are equally as symptomatic of the male gaze as a selfie is? maybe they cancel each other out?"
“According to Zhu Xi, although universal principal (li) is embodied in each person’s nature (xing), it is at the same time an external standard that must be apprehended through investigation and study. Wang Yangming inverted Zhu Xi’s dictate of extending knowledge (gewu) a turning outward to discover objectives truths, into an internalized and subjective search for moral knowledge (zhi liangzhi).”
"In the 17th century Leibnitz proposed his "monad" as an irreducible unit for explaining not only the material world but the inner world of the soul."
"Why are people freaking out about your art project?"
"i love it. hot"
"Fool, why try to catch a fleeting image, in vain? What you search for is nowhere: turning away, what you love is lost! What you perceive is the shadow of reflected form: nothing of you is in it. It comes and stays with you, and leaves with you, if you can leave!"
"i love things that people think is "attention seeking" and superficial because EVERYTHING WE DO IS LIKE THAT and at least these things are blatant about it, makeup and fashion"
"Sarah Lawrence is a beautiful school. My intuition tells me that the truths we are missing about genetics lay somewhere within the Humanities. I don't think the alignment of Programs at Sarah Lawrence are a coincidence (Although, I really don't believe in coincidences(I am Logical holistic)). I intuit that the female sex is currently evolving faster than men on a genetic level, due to the rapid expansion of their environmental conditions. This is coming from a Neutral Theory of molecular evolution.. I will stop there because I am not trying to prove the point, but just want to motivate thought.
All of my relations from Saint Lawrence are wonderful people. I hope you enjoy it there and experience all of its potentials Mary!"
"we've been skyping a lot and i had just been saving screenshots
and she has a very solid connections to selfies, helped her discover herself re:DID
so we were kind of organically making selfies once removed since she's aware of the camera and always kind of posing even when relaxed
so we started making a repository and it's been shaping into kind of a cool site. and ia made it a wordpress so she could drop in quotes and thoughts and writings about what it was starting to feel like. so i was communicating visually through them and her writing"
"i like to post as much as possible without ever really giving any direct details about my personal life, and mainintaing a family-friendly atmosphere"
"Block someone, delete someone, whatever it's your network."
"Just gunna point out that people used to pay god knows how much to get their portraits painted to hang in their own home...who really has the issues here? *twirls 10 dollar webcam*"
"i also love how you are in a way desexualizing boobies even though males may see that differently, as a breastfeeding mother i see boobs as an organ with a purpose and i love whipping them out in public to feed my child with. Titties are important and functional parts of a body like any other organ"
selfies i think are awesome
because like generally people are made to think that they have to get other people to validate them
and selfies are a way to be like "I KNOW I LOOK GOOD, LEMME SHOW YOU"
although granted this isn't always the case"
narcissus was male, but turned into a flower, female symbolism? obsession with self portrayed as negative, was a punishment for not loving anyone else, he led all dem nymphs astray -- goddess curses him to 5ever to love himself so he goes off and sees himself in the pool (isolated from everyone else) and obsesses over it solo, nothing can distract him, whines that they are distanced by so little but still out of reach, wishes he could be removed from his body so he could be able to be with himself, body is slowly destroyed bc melted bc angst, turns into a flower
"The scientist's discoveries impose his own order on chaos, as the composer or painter imposes his; an order that always refers to limited aspects of reality, and is based on the observer's frame of reference"
"its all selfie love anyways from me to everyone else that loves themselves enough to share with everyone else. selfies to me are an opportunity to build upon an era of vanity and conceit whereby opportunity is allowed impeccable commentary"
GIRLS DONT BE GIRLS ONLINE BC THEN YOU WILL BE KIDNAPPED AND DIE
"i think that's exactly why mary does it. she told me i edit too much haha. people get mad at her for not just posting the pretty pictures very common. i think that's what she's trying to like 'research' with how she uses her facebook.
I do know more about this than most people cause she's talked to me about it and I know the projects she's working on in school / stuff she has going up on the web related to it, but still.. I like how people surface read all that stuff. Like, is there really a problem, a serious problem, with 'being a silly girl' on the internet?
And as জয়িনী বসু said to me: "it doesn't matter--she's not hurting anyone and doesn't deserve to be made fun of""
"Portrait epiphanies: why I take frequent selfpics: 1. I am my own most cooperative model, 2. taking control of my image helps quell the landslide of negative feelings I experience whenever I see myself in photographs shot by others, 3. to make up for the sad fact that so few images exist from my childhood and young adult years, & 4. because I am greatly inspired by a broad range of "self portrait" artists , past and present."
"beautiful writing and pictures, loved what you have to say; read as much as I could for now. I think you have great opinions and insight into both subconscious and pre-meditated human behavior and everyone on social media should check this out"
"i guess i feel like if you've got it out there in the public, then you can't be surprised to have haters right?"
"*gets to the bottom of the page* *tries to keep scrolling*"
attributing the systematic oppression of women to "the patriarchy" downplays women's roles in contributing to said oppression
we live in a patriarchy but its is not only the patriarchy's fault that women are oppressed
it's not like women have no agency, have no ability to do anything for themselves
of course privilege and cultural bullshit plays heavily into this, but the fact of the matter is that if a little over half of the population decided to refuse to participate in the sex/gender system the predominates then it wouldnt be a thing anymore
also, i just dislike how gendery "patriarchy" is
"Hmm? I have little thoughts on it.
The selfie as our society is viewing it, or the more literal version, just taking a picture of yourself, mainly just to see how you look or to have a picture for a particular use such as a profile picture?
I'll talk about both. I have no interest or experience in selfies as society has been seemingly using them. Taking pictures to show themselves off, just to show what someone is wearing, or to message someone with pictures instead of words seems silly to me, except for messaging."
"i fail to understand why wanting to know you look good is "bad""
"Why are you single attractive girls shouldn't be single! A man should be assigned to them!"
seems dumb that saying "I like to show off my body." qualifies one as "narcissistic," doesn't seem problematic to me if someone has a positive self image in that way..
"She believes that questions like “I am assertive” and “I like to take responsibility for making decisions” are indicators of narcissism"
??since when is being assertive a bad thing??
"i still say they look cinnamon-flavored"
"beautiful writing and pictures, loved what you have to say; read as much as I could for now. I think you have great opinions and insight into both subconscious and pre-meditated human behavior and everyone on social media should check this out"
"this is awesome. Marshall McLuhan would splurge and I mean that in the most revering respectful way possible."
"Femininity, with it's associations of sensuality, eroticism, and frivolity, provides a ready alternative to the old preoccupation with such masculine qualities as social responsibility and moral seriousness."
"this has to be the most creative thing I've seen in ages
The randomization was a really nifty idea
is this going to continue to expand with more quotes and selfies over time or is this a sort of final version?
You should add a feed to work with cookies so any new posts get preferentially sorted to the top because I'd love to check back on this sometime for new content but it'd be hard if I had to dig through it all again
but I probably still wouldn't mind
even the nonsequitur quotes are worth rereading really
fan of your art xo"
it’s cool to do commercial work if you’re classy and pretending you make it for yourself instead of to sell
"to read later"
"you take a lot! and i am always wondering why"
"I was trying to explain this to my mom, and she was like, 'Uhhh..' and I was like, 'MOM IT IS A REALLY GROUND BREAKING ART DIALOGUE.'"
"Curse this fucking inability to express my emotions when not in person! How can I let anyone know how I feel? My art is completely impotent, my camera can't help me express my pain. I'm envious of the painters, the sketchers, the sculptors who can shape their pain into things that can then be shown to fucking will tell them they 'feel the emotion of the piece' and can 'see how it expresses the artists inner desire to fuck his mom' or whatever the fuck they say then debate over their tiny cups of coffee while really wondering if they are wearing just the right amount of black to make them cool."
"Also, narcissism as an art form is eminently boring. I am ready for something more than people writing I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I."
"bro im so floated rite now"
In the postcolonial era, the notions of identity and national affiliation become indistinct, ambiguous and complex.
"The article seems to approach with the premise that all people experience empowerment from the same things. For example, most people would consider flaying all the skin off your leg with an obsidian dagger to be disempowering, but I personally find strength in it because it is allows my spirit to commune with Tezcatlipoca The Smoking Mirror, who is lord of strife."
"(thnx for introducing me to the word girlcore)"
feel like a hot guy topless on a website would do better
"yeah. that's true
but as soon as his butt or penis was revealed, probably not, right?"
my butt or penis was not revealed
so that wouldn't be analogous
"yeah. there lies the bias. that breasts are considered as taboo as a guys butt or genitals to an extent, no?"
"if you are a girl and have lots of sex then you are a slut with low self esteem obviously"
"im not reading this article, but let me know when your thesis emerges on fb, ill share it mary. we all know who knows what selfie culture is about"
"Autodissociation, or autoionization is the spontaneous separation of molecules into ions. A molecule, or a set of molecules will split up to form a number of positive charged particles (cations) and negative charged particles (anions)."
"Stop notifying me of yor opinions"
its like.. just me shirtless
plenty of bros have shirtless pix up
"Although promoting girl-empowerment seems like a positive move to enhance girls’ independence and autonomy,I demonstrate in this chapter that the girl power discourses about online safety also operate as a form of control by defining the freedom to choose in limited ways. That is, girls’ sexual choices are only recognized as legitimate and freely chosen if they conform to a heteronormative developmental narrative that dictates the appropriate time and circumstances in which adolescent girls should engage in sexual activity."
"hey! i'm in a secret online women's group and we've been discussing your work. all of us really love it."
wow selfies yay they rock/wow society is dumb for hating/wow classic society hating on teenage girls again/wow teenage girls keep doing u because v beneficial v wow
"you are one gutsy lady!!!!"
"i can never tell when people are just a character or w/e"
i mean, that's partially the point of the project
the fact that i'm controlling my image in the webcam and he's curating what to put on the website
"i see it says selfless once removed
is there anything else indicating ians hand? just curious
nah, i was totally in charge of the text
although the text is still like
mostly people's reactions to me/selfies in general
"so the average person looking at it wouldn't know ian curated it?"
its very disconnected from me despite the fact that i am still sorta in control
if you read the text on the website its mentioned a couple times that he's the person who curated it, but yea
"how is it disconnected from you?
yea i scrolled thru a bunch of the text and didn't see any allusions to him but i couldn't read it all"
or dissociated, i guess is better word
bc its not written from my perspective
i have dissociative identity disorder, so my connection to a sense of "self" is nearly nonexistent
"well my only true hope for the site is vagina
i think its fine if ian curates the images whatever
but i think vagina would make it next levek"
"I had never heard of Marie Calloway's book before reading about it through your site, so thanks for the recommendation! I'm so in need of something good to read right now. kinda wish her face wasn't on the cover though?"
4chan was an online image board created in 2003. People who identified themselves as women were told that “there are no girls on the internet,” and women who posted pictures of themselves were accused of camwhoring for attention out of low self esteem.
Some of these women amassed large followings and fanbases and are referred to as “Chans.”
"Mary Bond, New York high school girl suffering from a dissociative syndrome, developed an art project made selfies and fragments of thoughts. Alone with his computer, it tries to connect to the world beyond her illness: learn Autodissociate.me."
"is her selfie site a serious perspective on the female role in society? or is she just master troll?"
"are those mutually exclusive?"
"well played sir"
"I wish that him I love might live on, but now we shall die united, two in one spirit."
"So what exactly is your aim with this project? I appreciate it because I feel like it's supposed to destigmatize body hair on women and it's just an interesting layout, in general, but I'm curious to know what you're trying to achieve here"
that narcissus' reflection mimics him makes him love it all the more
"i feel aversion to this"
"fun! this makes me wish i had boobs and hung out shirtless all the time!"
"Somebody said selfies are empowering?"
"Yes, selfies are more empowering than photos of me that someone else took or manipulated. I control them.
Additionally, this article fails to address men selfies as far as my skim shows.
ALSO, most of my selfies are for humor and not for showing off how good I look (though I certainly take those too) so I think she's ignorant of a lot of "selfie culture". Me and my friends exchange funny selfies. It's just as much men as women. In my life, men moreso."
"i look cute biting my lip dont i"
he loves only what he percieves as a reflection of himself, but he himself is not in the reflection
"The images are "selfies once removed" -- basically screenshots captured and compiled by Ian during Skype (and other) visual comm sessions with Mary, hence the title, autodissociateme. Some of the overlaid text quotes are from Mary and/or Ian, but many are chat and online responses from others"
"it's hard for me to look at this site without touching myself"
“Contrasts the illusory nature of a fictional work with real values of fidelity and righteousness”
"I think it's super funny that people have anything to say about the actual selfie"
Rubin, in her essays, delves into an examination of why society views certain actions as “bad,” and how deviating from expected gender roles threatens to undermine the traditional structure of society.
"this is better than michel stipe's website, and that was one of my favorite things for a while"
"inspirational website of the day ♥"
"tempted to break character to offer thought-provoking commentary on this but i'm too lazy"
"it's kind of nice to see your fellow girlfriend's boobs platonically. this is cool"
"i mean if we're speaking honestly tho the best way to control any society is to control the women"
"In the press, selfie was often associated with the narcissism of a generation disconnected from reality, living in a virtual world and that creates its own personality by photographing. Yet the evil Mary suffers is indeed real and comes from the physical world and not the social context of his time. She faces since childhood difficulties to socialize and she found in the selfie a way to offer the eyes of others. His images mingle with notes reflection on the self image in today's society. Through her work, Mary Bond embodies a network with his words and with the society in which she lives. There are currently no aesthetic in her photos. The grain of the webcam is often pixelated. Mary Bond is naked and rarely makeup. " Why is it wrong to look at pictures of yourself? ", does she asks."
""How I wish I could separate myself from my body." So laments Narcissus while grieving over his inability to seize the alluring figure he sees in the water –the figure that, unbeknownst to him, is his reflected image. In his ignorance, Narcissus fulfills the prophecy of the oracle Tiresias: that Narcissus will live to a "ripe old age…if he does not come to know himself." "Spellbound by his own self," Narcissus remained motionless, stuck with a fixed gaze, and soon withered into nothingness."
"I propose 0 Cuil, or "absolute Cuil". 0 Cuil: I ask for a hamburger, you give me the epitome of all hamburgers, to the most subjective detail. Observers in a state of Perfect Cuil are often introduced to a phenomenon known as the Cuil Paradox, where the hamburger asked/given ratio is so near 1:1 that the observer begins to doubt the reality, suspecting that the hamburger was an artifact of their manufactured memories."
"i feel like a pic of my face/me posted online, where it sits alongside my work, is more the real me than if i'm face to face with you irl. because online i can present my innerself, irl the surface takes over / overwhelms.
[yeah, its an interestin project mary, touches on stuff ppl seem generally uncomfy/dishonest about. also, its a refracted love story. lol at whover it was sed its about body hair fml]"
Mmm, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.. Although, I'm not sure how real a representation this project is of me, although I guess it could definitely be categorized as a very real of reflection of myself, or image of myself as seen by others.
Hahah, the body hair thing cracked me up, although many girls from my high school have messaged me telling me "thank you" bc they had previously felt uncomfortable re:body hair and now feel as though it's more "cool" (which is funny to me, I don't think of myself as cool)
"Unknowingly he desires himself, and the one who praises is himself praised, and, while he courts, is courted, so that, equally, he inflames and burns. How often he gave his lips in vain to the deceptive pool, how often, trying to embrace the neck he could see, he plunged his arms into the water, but could not catch himself within them! What he has seen he does not understand, but what he sees he is on fire for, and the same error both seduces and deceives his eyes."
biography of a person that is written by a crowdsourced group on a wiki then appropriated into an autobiography and thus “ghostwritten” by the internet
"I must say that as an artist it is undeniably frustrating to have to censor my work for most social media platforms due to the sexualization of the nude, especially when I am proud of the study that I've done."
"i really like it
i wonder what your thoughts are on showing your vagina
like if u purposefully don't for some reason
if u don't feel comfortable doing that
"Hey! I don't think we've met, but I wanted to say I was kind of impressed with your autodissociate me page. First the shock value and the cute pictures were a turn on, but then the comments and the actual intent of the project seemed really interesting lol"
theory of mind and memory and how they're connected
empathy/autobiography very much connected
and even when they aren't, the places that seem disconnected reference similar spaces in the brain
so it's like
most of our memories are social
well not all parts of conversation are as social as others
more information vs like empathetic thingies
i dont know the proper terminology at all hmmph
obvi im just relating all of this back to selfies
how autobiography is very social
makes sense re:the whole teenage girl obsession with selfies and how its stereotypical for them to be obsessed with how others perceive them
"everyone takes them though
how society prioritizes girls being good at being social
but everyone gets butthurt when girls do it
it's funny when grandmas do it or cops or someone unexpected
"and there is at least a perception that they do it more"
50 y/o men doing the duckface
i need to shape this into a paper somehow lolz
and also include like
the commoditization of self love/narcissism/the feminism movement
like "PAMPER URSELF U DESERVE IT WOMAN"
"mary being a lil whore is nothing new or ground breaking. it is not edgy or anything, just makes people think that you are lonely or have a personality disorder. is it borderline personality disorder? is it bi polar disorder? which one is it?"
"Bathrooms are where people do everything they would never want the rest of the world to see. And even though you would never want anybody else to see you there, it's one of the only rooms where you get a chance to look at yourself. It's so private and odd; it's where a person can either be vain or self-deprecating; fantasise about their incredible future or scrutinise themselves to the point that they want everything to end."
"i just finished posting all these nude chicks
and titties bounching
i don't want pervs looking at your gf
in the wrong way"
"I think they are like a newly developing language and that's cool! I also think it's the most transparent and honest genre of photography and that also cool!"
"the roots for decoratively housed yet lonely female longing"
"'Oh, The Selfies You'll Take!' a re-telling of the Dr. Seuss classic modified to more accurately reflect my life"
"Spontaneity is discarded, and what’s left? A plea for attention. Most of the time when you read about selfies in the mass media you learn that every selfie is narcissistic, that every selfie says “look at me.” But that’s just what happens to the selfie when it’s taken out of context."
"well you know how some of my selfies are kinda, denial of self image
or some kind of twisted take on that"
"because i have self esteem and self image issues"
"im not comfortable in my body; i think those who appear like mary are, or are coming to terms with that, which is really brave and honorable to me, but i always am concerned where the images end up
or that men just tend to misread anyone who appears sexually expressive as "asking for it""
there's that fear. there's some fairly hardcore images of her and i out there now on this erotica group, but i feel safe with it. i mostly feel nervous that she's figured more predominantly and i told her i wont be comfortable until she takes the camera and control in a reasonable situation"
"I'm very public about every thought I have. Mary is public with her thoughts. If anyone asks us anything we will say literally what we are thinking. If people have a problem with that, they have the wide open option to not involve us in their thoughts (inviting responses) or not talk about us and expect us to not respond? I don't see why I have any sort of responsibility to NOT talk about stuff that feels interesting or uncomfortable or problematic to me."
"i like the randomization and that it's a collection of (i'm guessing) quotes from one person?
i'm thinking about that thing that was mentioned in the 'selfie' discussion janey brought up
and the 'spontaneity' of the decision the take the picture, there's something about this that has a really strong meta-quality to it, i like it a lot
feel like there's a level or something missing from either my understanding or just the project that's preventing me from seeing it as something that's sharable as art, but i really like this 'project' lol"
""This (I) form," writes Lacan, situates the agency known as the ego, prior to its social determination, in a fictional direction that will forever remain irreducible for any single individual." While the I affords the self its distinctness, its self-hood, it also alienates the self from itself."
"i have to spend more time with it, first reaction is v addictive, no filter"
Definitely seems like selfies could be a way to build empathy across internet-based networks; makes me wonder whether that's why people began including "avatars" on blog/forum posts, as a way to make building empathy more easy, and whether or not forums without avatars show a decrease in empathetic connections between members..
Also, you might be interested in this: I'm working on a project with a friend that's examining the phenomenon of selfies. http://autodissociate.me/ During skype calls, he takes screencaps of me and uploads them to the site. It's interesting because I'm positioning myself in front of the webcam (and thus controlling his image of me) but he's curating the images. It's our way of exploring the idea of "dissociated" selfies. The text is quotes from sources that seem relevant to the discourse about selfies/my own writing - a way of showing my thoughts in the greater context of a network.
Photography revolutionized the idea of “reality” in art; because it was easy to pretend that photography was an exact duplication of a scene and could be substituted for actually being there, the boundary between fiction and reality in visual art was blurred.
"the image of the body symbolizes the (imagined) sanctity of the I or ego, images of the dismembered body symbolize the disjointed state of the self that is, as a function of the self’s very being, repressed by the ego"
"The profile photo to selfie, "Generation Y" had the right to all the qualifiers, but especially that of narcissistic. To be photographed at every turn, the elders believed to see in this obsession with identity egocentricity boundless. However, if photograph is to question and turn to each other, then maybe this young called Narcissus does not look up. Maybe his eyes are simply lost in the wave in vacuum, desperately trying to make eye contact with someone who him, the look in return."
"i refuse to fight for respect by becoming more masculine or modest in my feminity because i believe my femininity deserves respect"
"hahaha, i dunno, its going viral
Oh I noticed
"What was the idea for it?
Or rather what led to its inception?"
selfies from different perspectives, mostly
"Are they randomized?"
the text/pictures are, yeah
by perspectives i mean like
"Oh I was referring to when the website is opened
The words and images sometimes change place I think"
"yeah i guess selfies help us feel a person’s presence when we interact on the internet. cognitive dissonance tells us to believe that person is who he/she says they are. dunno. my penis."
"To analyze it as deeply as possible, for myself, the point is that everyone does it and I like to participate in things that people do. I feel very happy and I am very successful, probably BECAUSE I take selfies, but that's just my theory."
Freud viewed narcissism as a psychological retardation, and a sign that the child had not fully developed. Lacan reinterpreted Freud’s psychoanalytic techniques, taking Freud’s descriptions of the body as symbolic metaphors. Lacan had an intense fascination with what he called the “Mirror Stage,” which he constructed out of a dissection of the myth of Narcissus.
lacan was like sup my homies i will interpret everything as symbols
"do u masturbate?"
"a cultural item that is transmitted by repetition in a manner analogous to the biological transmission of genes."
WHAT IS NARCISSISM AFTER ALLLLLL
The word “narcissism” is derived from the Greek myth of Narcissus, a man who was so beautiful and self absorbed that he was cursed to forever love himself - without satisfaction. In Ovid’s telling of the tale, Narcissus is a beautiful boy who scorns all: the nymphs, young men, and everyone in between. The one person to whom he appears to show any interest is Echo - but this is only when she repeats his words back at him. As soon as Echo presents her physical form to him, Narcissus rejects her. Rhamnusia, a goddess, decides that the only course of action is to have him fall madly in love with himself, but never be able to have himself.
After Rhamnusia lays her curse upon him, Narcissus happens upon a pool of water in the forest, and when he catches his reflection in it, he falls madly in love. Narcissus at first does not realize that it is himself whom he loves; “what he has seen he does not understand, but what he sees he is on fire for.” Ovid decries Narcissus’ foolishness - he is in love with an image, who will never be able to return Narcissus’ love. Eventually, Narcissus realizes that what he is seeing is but an image of himself, and he bemoans his presence in his physical body, describing his intense desire to be separated from it, that he might love it properly. Eventually, Narcissus’ longing for himself becomes so overwhelming that he turns into a flower.
This myth applicable to selfies taken by girls in two ways: the selfie exAamined through the lens of Echo, and the selfie examined through the lens of Narcissus. when exmained through the lens of ech, it becomes immediately clear that echo is only appealing to narcissus when she reflects him. young girls are only good/appealing when they reflect men. there are no girls on the internet. Narcissus is totally that too, cuz narcissus staring at self in pool analogous to what the media thinks young girls are doing.
"A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another."
"the dismembered body abound in art, though perhaps no where more memorably than in the works of Renaissance artist Hieronymus Bosch, whose paintings depict, in eerie detail, severed and pierced limbs and torsos. Bosch’s dreamy images dramatize the chaos –the incongruity between body and ego –that underlies the self’s claim to autonomy, as well as the self’s inability to completely sublimate the drives of the body. As glimpses beneath the façade of the ego, Bosch’s works show that the ego is both the source and the result of the repression of the fundamental vulnerability of the body"
"if social media brands are people's work, then we can examine their facebook activity as texts"
"The selfie is phatic: it’s an image that establishes immediate contact, by introducing gesture and mimicry—both components of face-to-face interactions—to telecommunications."
I don't have much of a position on them
I'm just really aware of the stigmas surrounding selfies
as well as the hype around it as a concept
I don't think they are necessarily as narcissistic like most people think. For some people its more of a pragmatic self-documentation.
Thats not me though
and obsessed with mysefl
I think being trans makes me acutely self-reflexive of of my appearance, most of the time.
Selfies provide a way of sharing images where you more control over how you appear
are more in control*
You control more things from composition, makeup, setting, in addition to post-production(Photoshop or Instagram filters)."
"breast should be celebrated not banned"
Narcissism/Deviancy in Selfies Taken by Teenage Girls
History of narcissism
narcissus was male
Lacan - The Mirror Stage
current developmental debate
Narcissism and Girls
Online safety thing - Low self esteem
History of Selfies
European art history fastforward
European artists who were women excluded from canon
their self portraits
Self portraits w cameras
What is a selfie - Definition of selfies as networked self portraits
Selfies in the context of:
Potential benefits of selfies
building of self awareness
Building empathy across digital networks
faux eye contact
Media’s potrayal of selfies
comdemnation as narcissistic
more recent moves towards not hating them
"like they're fine, people can take pictures of themselves. it bothers me a little when they're like "look how ugly i am" but other than that its cool"
"*is suddenly paranoid about whether my selfies have a ~point~*"
"makes me think about narcissus and this idea of the new mirror being one that documents
there's less freedom in a way, because every action is documented
you can't ever escape your past asthetic
kind of ironically, the superficial becomes fundamental"
"I like the coinage “selfie portrait.” It sounds to me like a suggestion of an image that draws its characteristics from both the selfie and the portrait, but isn’t quite either one, or maybe it’s a new kind of portrait, where the conventional signifiers of fleshly vulnerability and fleeting life are replaced by references to the ephemeral, phatic time of social media."
"What does the myth of Narcissus tell us? What is its secret? Most would argue that the myth tells of a flaw in human nature: extreme vanity...Society, for the most part, proclaims vanity or narcissism bad, and sometimes even evil, on the grounds that these traits situate the individual above or beyond society’s jurisdiction, for the narcissist is, by definition, he who finds an end in himself, he whose only reference point is himself. Narcissus’s death, then, is a reflection society’s triumph over the individual or subject who places himself outside the circle of society. Appealing as such a reading may be, it yet does not account for the near ubiquity of narcissism in society, evidenced most starkly and literally by the vanity mirror, which today is as common as floors and ceilings –so common, indeed, that we often overlook what it might tell us about our (narcissistic) selves."
"If taking your shirt off and sitting in front of a webcam and posting it all over the internet is 'art' to you. I hope your rot in the remains of your broken dreams of thinking that being naked is supposed to be important or that it will get you somewhere."